SENATOR THE HON KATY GALLAGHER
MINISTER FOR FINANCE
MINISTER FOR WOMEN
MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE
MINISTER FOR GOVERNMENT SERVICES
SENATOR FOR THE ACT
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
ABC CANBERRA
TUESDAY, 25 NOVEMBER 2025
SUBJECTS: Pauline Hanson, CSIRO, Savings.
ROSS SOLLY, HOST: You are with Ross Solly on the Breakfast Show. Senator Katy Gallagher has joined us. There's a few issues we want to talk about. Good morning to you, Senator.
SENATOR THE HON KATY GALLAGHER, MINISTER FOR FINANCE: Good morning, how are you Ross?
SOLLY: Yeah, good. Look, we have been talking this morning...
GALLAGHER : I've been listening.
SOLLY: Yeah, with some reluctance, because I really don't want to give her any oxygen...
GALLAGHER: Yeah, me too.
SOLLY: Were you in the Senate yesterday when Pauline Hanson pulled this stunt?
GALLAGHER: I wasn't, unfortunately.
SOLLY: Probably fortunately, in fact.
GALLAGHER: Well, because we had to deal with it. And then there was, as people saw, in the footage, there was quite a lot of going on in the Senate. And you're right, it is a bit of a shame that these things are really the most people often get coverage of the Senate, not all the other things we do. But yes, I was there pretty close, close to it happening, just afterwards. And certainly there for when the Senate suspended Senator Hanson.
SOLLY: There were a few people on the text line this morning saying, well, at the core here is a bigger issue, and that is about the role of the burqa, etc, in Australia, and is there a place for it? And a couple of people said, well, she was denied the chance to even put the bill on the table. I mean, is there a discussion that needs to be had, Katy Gallagher, in this area?
GALLAGHER: So I did hear a couple of your callers calling in earlier this morning, just after six. I think to explain, the Senate's taken, in terms of introducing the legislation, Senator Hanson, often, certainly several times, has sought to introduce legislation that is particularly divisive and attacks a particular group of people. In one instance, it was trans children, or trans kids, trans young people. In this instance, it was about Muslim women. And the Senate has, on those occasions, and in past parliaments as well, taken a view that where a bill is drafted to target and basically highlight attention to damage a particular group that we have not supported it moving past the first reading. So, we've allowed for that question we put, can we that the bill be read a first time, and then we voted as a chamber to vote against that. And the majority has. I think what happened yesterday was somebody jumped a bit too early and didn't allow her to move the first reading. So that was a bit unexpected. Usually we allow the first reading and then vote the bill down. And it's based on that principle, certainly for the Labor Party, that if you draft a bill that attacks a particular group of people in Australia, we don't want it debated in the Senate. We don't want hours of debate on something that's particularly drafted to have a go at one group of people, whether they be young people, or based on their gender identification, or in this case, about women who wear religious clothes as part of their following their faith.
SOLLY: There are many, though, Katy Gallagher, who do see the burqa as a symbol of oppression of women, and they're in many countries where they don't have a choice if they, if they don't wear a burqa, then there are serious, serious consequences for them. And they are saying, well, this is, you know, there are a lot of countries, like France, etc, Germany, the Netherlands, where it has been banned. As somebody who has championed women's rights for a long, long time, are you comfortable with the place of the burka?
GALLAGHER: Well, I certainly support people's right to religious freedom, and this comes as part of that, whether you follow a particular faith. There's people of other faith that wear clothes to identify the following of that faith, and I support that principle.
SOLLY: But what if that religious freedom involves oppressing women or making them dress from head to toe like that.
GALLAGHER: Well, as I said, Ross, I support religious freedom. I understand there's different views around that, and I engage pretty closely with women's organisations, including Muslim women organisations, and not one of them have raised this as an issue that they want to see addressed. There are many issues that we that they we engage on and work on, including access to education, training, right to safety, all of that across the board, I work on those issues, but banning the burka has not been raised with me as a priority for any group of women's advocates.
SOLLY: With Pauline Hanson, can she be kicked out of the Senate for a period of time? Or what is it like because you're sitting again today, aren't you?
GALLAGHER: Yes, we are. So she was suspended for the sitting yesterday. And I think there are discussions happening across the chamber about any further action the chamber needs to take, because, as the problem with yesterday and again, was that she was suspended after she refused to take what the President identified as a prop because she's not a Muslim woman. It's not a part of her religious expression. When she was asked to remove it, she refused. When she was asked to leave the chamber, she refused. So she was given a number of opportunities before a motion was moved to suspend her. And this is, as many of your listeners have pointed out, the second time that she has chosen to use this prop as a way of getting publicity in coverage for herself. Now, I mean, Senator Hanson doesn't often engage in the Senate. I also wanted to make that point. She's not active in debates, usually on legislation. She doesn't participate in Senate estimates. Last fortnight, last sitting fortnight, she was at Mar-a-Lago and not in the Senate. It's not as if she's there participating in the normal course of Senate Business. She doesn't do that, but the Senate will consider I think, and there'll be discussions this morning about any further action. I know there was a number of individuals in the chamber who felt extremely upset from their own religious faith, but also more broadly about how her stunt yesterday really drew attention to the Senate in a really harmful and unproductive way.
SOLLY: Well, let's move on from it now, because I want to talk about the CSIRO, and there are many of our listeners who feel that local members, yourself and others have not done enough to try and protect the jobs of CSIRO. There are 350 people probably who are going to lose their jobs. Senator Gallagher, have you been in to fight the good fight on behalf of those people and to try and get some more money to save their jobs? And do you support the way that you know that the money has been cut back? More job losses now, Katy Gallagher, than under Tony Abbott's leadership.
GALLAGHER: Well, I'm not sure that's correct Ross. Tony Abbott actually cut the funding significantly, I think a billion dollars out of CSIRO. We have actually invested more money since coming to government in the CSIRO. So the issue there is, and yes, I have been involved, as you would expect, not only as the ACT Senator, but as the Minister for Finance, is that, and I think Tim Ayres spoke on your show last week, the CSIRO, from my point of view as Minister for Finance has to operate within its budget. Now, at the moment, that's not the case. And yes, we've already announced that there'll be more money in MYEFO to support CSIRO going forward and make sure that it gets onto a sustainable footing. And yes, I am part of that, and we'll announce that, as part of MYEFO.
SOLLY: Will that save the jobs? So will that save those jobs or not?
GALLAGHER: Well, CSIRO also independently manages these things, so they have taken, the board has taken a view that that's what needs to happen. We have obviously been in constant engagement with them via Tim Ayres about the consideration the ERC has given for investment in CSIRO. On those jobs as well, they're going through the consultation process now. That is a nationwide approach. So it's not, I don't want people to think that those would be concentrated in Canberra. When I've had a discussion with Tim Ayres about that, he's been very clear that many you know that if and they're going through a consultation process now, so I don't want to interfere with that, that those job reductions would be happening nationwide. The other thing on CSIRO is we have to deal, and they know they have to deal with the accommodation properties management side of CSIRO as well. They have large numbers of buildings which they're having to maintain and upgrade and do things like that. And we will work with them on that as we looked at, you know, part of this kind of getting the budget in better shape and getting them on a more sustainable footing.
SOLLY: Really quickly, the Australian Financial Review reporting today that you've ordered federal departments and agencies to find 5% of spending cuts is that true?
GALLAGHER: Ross, we've been trying to find savings since we came to government. So that approach continues.
SOLLY: Is this a new order, though? Is these new a new directive? Go out there find 5%
GALLAGHER: We've asked agencies to think about all the things they're doing and make room for reprioritisation within budgets. We've been doing that since we came to government. This is another example of that approach we have to manage the budget.
SOLLY: So this is an additional 5% is it, it's an additional 5% on top of previous cuts?
GALLAGHER: There's no cuts. This is not a 5% cut. What we've asked agencies to do is have a look at what they're doing and make room for reprioritisation. It's an exercise in discipline around how we manage budgets, and that's the approach we've taken since we came to government. The budget is in deficit, Ross, we have a lot of pressures on it. We can't just keep adding on to everything. We have to keep looking at what we're doing now, whether there’s things we don't need to continue doing, so that we can free up resources to focus on the things that we have to do.
SOLLY: We are out of time Senator Gallagher, thanks for joining us this morning.
GALLAGHER: Thanks for having me on, Ross.
ENDS
